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Hey Don…. you might want to read the “So called coup in Honduras” thread a bit down this page. As they say… been there done that!
I do like the fact that I might not be alone in what I believe! And as for the US being the root of all problems in the world… that idea isn’t going to go away when you’ve got our new Secretary of State running around taking responsibility for every problem other countries have! Didn’t you love when she was in Mexico telling them it’s all our fault that they have all these social and economic problems and violence there!
Soon the US won’t be anyone’s problem… the G8 (with the Russians and Chinese taking the lead) is very tenderly discussing the next step in changing the world reserve currency from the dollar… and when that happens the US is just a net importer with a huge debt, lousy credit, that can’t pay it’s bills! Sure they say it’s a “way” off… but the fact that they’re discussing it tells you they see the writing on the wall! This is going to happen much sooner!
DonHo911,
I agree! The US does get more than its fair share of blame. Not that past history should be forgotten, but in this instance, the blame is unfounded. Obama and Clinton have taken a stand on the side of Zelaya, along with the Castro brothers, Ortega and Chavez. Zelaya even departed from the US for his first attempt at returning. I’m told by Honduran nationals that he was conferring with Clinton today in Washington.
I personally know three Honduran nationals who still have family in Honduras. Most are happy with what has transpired and there is less civil unrest than we think. All of the representatives in their government were unanimous in support of Micheletti.
Let’s blame the US when it is justified, but let’s let Honduras remedy their own problems. And how come no one mentions Chavez and the ballots he sent, and Ortega and Castro in their interference and support for the return of Zelaya? Why only seek to implicate the US? The people of Honduras, by and large, do not want a Chavez style of government.
The Castro brothers, Ortega and Chavez…. Nice to know that the new US president is keeping such great company already!
Let’s see how this one plays out! Perhaps Obama’s sidekick Joe… the guy with all the international experience, will sort this out and get things squared away!
And the OAS, the UN security council, et al, are bad company? Has any government, anywhere, recognized this government? Curious state of affairs. Are they all teamed up against something so “legal”? Hell of a deal.
I may be wrong, but I believe that Secretary Clinton accepted US involvement (as an end user) in the drug trade and that this has contributed to the subversion of law and order in Mexico. Is there an argument against that? How about the same being true in Columbia, Panama, Guatemala, and Honduras? It is just as ridiculous to deny the drug money pouring out of the states is a predicate to the situation as it is for US citizens to be given responsibility for the violence of the traffickers. It is a problem for ALL of us.The bottom line is that the Hondurans selected a president who has begun to trample their constitution. This means that he has lost the title of representative of the people. The military is NOT a representative of the people either. By the way, we had a similar kind of president with GW except that our military is run by coporate interests. Any way, The solution is being addressed properly by the Costa Ricans. Arias is now in talks with both parties.
I love Costa Rica for more than just the scenery and life style. Arias has his own political agenda but it fits so nicely with sane politics. Costa Rica is a refuge for those of us wanting to escape the insanity of the US. The problem is that insanity is contagious and now very close to the Costa Rican border.
Edited on Jul 08, 2009 07:37
… and dare we ask what our American friends think of how GWB should be treated for the way he most definitely trampled the US constitution?
Scott Oliver – Founder
WeLoveCostaRica.comHey Ed…
Looks like you did a little reading on the topic and have come up with some nice input! Thanks for joining the conversation!
The OAS isn’t really all that important since their agenda matches that of many of the Latin America leaders. They don’t seem to have many options but to fall in line with these guys or risk having the whole organization come apart. As for the UN… well they’re just out and out against any action seen as a coup. But you have to remember the UN has been pretty passive as Hugo has taken his country from a free democracy to what he’s got now. They were silent as he removed each of the checks to his unlimited power and now have to deal with him as leader for life like his heros the Castro brothers! They’ve also let other countries in Central/South America slide in this direction without much protest!
As for the UN security council, take a good look at the permanent members and see if you think their judgment on what a freely elected government is really passes muster. Forty percent of that team have “questionable” democratic records and pretty poor human rights records as well. Time will be the true judge of this situation in Honduras… so until then I guess we’ll have to wait and see. I’m glad Honduras is staying the course… Hugo and Hitler both came to power after being removed from their path once… only to be allowed to return.
As for the Mexico situation and Clinton… I think she also took the blame for the gun violence… and their poverty… even with all those jobs exported to Mexico under Nafta. Seems she thinks Mexico wouldn’t have all their problems if the US didn’t exist… but I find that a hard one to buy into!! Perhaps the second largest source to their GDP would have to be honest work in their own country rather than money sent home by folks that have fled. And what’s happening to all that oil money… the number one source of their national wealth?
But I guess we can have one of those “which came first… the chicken or the egg” arguments… was it the drugs that created the addicted junkies in the US that fuel the drug trade or were the junkies already there and have caused the drugs to be imported via Mexico! Either way to take the blame for Mexico’s problems was a big mistake…. let them deal with their own CRIMINALS… we have enough!!!
Next we’ll be taking the blame for the unrest in Chine which has resulted from the economic downturn in the US…. 1000’s of factories have closed in China from a lack of demand for their cheap goods in the US… people there are in trouble, social and economic problems are popping up… and who do they blame…. THE US… because we’re not buying their crap! LOL Perhaps Hillary can head over and make nice, take the blame, and forget to mention we ran out of money!
The world has been feeding off the US for 200 years… both in legals and illegal markets… and now that the well is running dry and the reality of the world economy is hitting home… it’s somehow our fault as Americans… sorry folks… not my problem!
Scott, GW should be tried for treason along with his entire cabinet. And while we’re at it, why not presecute those congressional people on the commitees which signed off on torture?
Of course, this won’t happen. Vested interests are the ones in power who make decisions on whether or not to prosecute, not the people. Anyone here who still believes the US is a free and just democracy is just plain delusional or completely ignorant of the facts.
It is perfectly correct to blame many of the ills in latin america on the US.
Colonial powers are rarely concerned with the welfare of their colonies and the US has been an economical colonial power in latin america and the caribbean for over a century. I applaud nations like Cuba and Venezuela who managed to wiggle free from the US and more countries are following suit.
It is unfortunate that some leaders, like Honduras’ president, believe it is necessary to take extraordinary measures to ensure their survival in the face of US opposition. Jose Marti, Cuba’s 19th century national hero, once called the US “El Monstro del Norte”monster of the north. It took a lot of blood and decades of suffering to throw the US out of Cuba. Fortunately, that task might be a lot easier now that the US is weakened and distracted elsewhere.Edited on Jul 08, 2009 08:41
Sprite,
Applauding Cuba and Venezuela is a misnomer. You are applauding Fidel Castro and Hugo Chavez. The people of those two countries had, and still have very little say in the matter. And you may be also be forgetting that little incident in Costa Rica’s history with Don Pepe Figueres. Although that did turn out well… Maybe Honduras will have the same good fortune.
Scott, You may ask. Many of us are not happy with much of the policies of the Bush administration, but that does not exempt the present occupant of the White House, or Latin American leaders from criticism.
Bush may have been a dope… and made some bad choices when dealt a really crappy hand… but I don’t think anyone believed his goal was to become president for life! Nor to move America in the direction we see now.
As for the current president… well it seems each passing day of the new administration makes the Bush years look better and better! Give it a year or two and they’ll be putting out a “W… The good old days” stamp at the post office!
I was however happy to see Obama identify all those tax cheats and use the guise of cabinet appointments to get them to pay up after they were nominated for positions in the new administration! This Obama guy is a sharp guy! But then again we have a Treasury Secretary currently that failed to report a bunch of income and pay the taxes… his excuse… he used Turbo Tax! Genius…. why didn’t I think of that one!!! LOL
Scott, the thing you and I have to admit about the dumb as a bowling ball prez the world just got relieved of…we knew where he was coming from. “you are with me, or against me”. HIS people did JUST FINE, thank you. His sire, George of one term, was actually shocked that he wasn’t a shoe-in for a second term, as the same maxim applied. HIS people did just fine, thank you.
I just wish the lot had the class to just disappear with their billions but then again, they are mad I still have 11 dollars in my right pocket. They ain’t quite got it all. Actually, they might be right. What am I doing with bills that say IN GOD WE TRUST, and they are obviously God’s representatives on earth. Ask their followers and apologists. I need more humility.
In the meantime, yes, they are liars and war criminals and should be tried. The evidence is in, even for the blind.Edited on Jul 08, 2009 19:20
Why thank you, I haven’t been patronized in, well, minutes. Perhaps your well thought out and researched and so very obviously objective opinion generating cornucopia of wisdom (LOL) can answer the question, has ANY country recognized this government? What do we seem to have left here, with your relegating of the OAS and UN and beau coup other authorities to the ineffective, benign and basically worthless scrap pile?
Oh the REAL authorities with their established vision of the world. I’m glad we got an “in” that fills us in.
I thank you, I’ll sleep better.Just a few points…
Zelaya was trying to hold a NON – BINDING referendum to seek the populous’ take on him being able to run for a second 4 year term. How is this unconstitutional?
All Central American countries backed Zelaya… not just Hugo, Daniel and the Castro’s…
GWB SHOULD be incarcerated in Gitmo!!!
Neither Presidential candidate is a “True” American… Obama has the Kenyan influence and McCain was born in Panama, at an off base hospital (NOT US soil)…
The US is not responsible for all the world’s woes… but they have overstepped the mark a few times… my pet one is Grenada, an illegal invasion to subdue an over stated public dispute. Grenada is and was at the time a BRITISH protectorate, it was their problem not the US’s. I think they just did it so they could have some success after disasters in Korea (Draw) and Vietnam (Loss). This may be why the UK “told” the US to stay away in the Falklands…
Cuba is the US’s fault… They didn’t like being kicked out of their playground and for the last 50 years have made it VERY difficult for the Cubans. However, the average Cuban on the street is quite happy with what they have.
Finally, I have to agree with Alfred on how this should play out in Honduras… Let them work it out themselves. There is an election in 6 months… leave them alone, monitor the situation so there aren’t any recriminations for the protests, and let it be without any outside interference from ANY country.
Just my 2 cents worth…
Brian
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