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Is it my imagination or is there a much bigger percentage of Americans living in in Costa Rica angry about what is happening in the US?
I am meeting more gringos in Costa Rica who seem to be totally disgusted with what is going on in the US and what our commander in chief is doing domestically never mind what other disasters he plans for internationally?
Is it that Americans living in Costa Rica are all left wing liberals? Is it that they read different newspapers?
Or is it because they have now lived outside the US for a while and begin to see things differently?If you are an American who has lived in Costa Rica for a while, I would like your opinion?
Yours respectfully from a veteran.
I am not American and don’t want this to turn into a political argument but people who travel do tend to have a more ‘global’ perspective and this is probably one of the reasons the people you are meeting are the way they are…
Scott Oliver
WeLoveCostaRica.comThere are a bunch of us (still) in the states that aren’t too pleased with what is happening in the US. Not going to get into it – but I hope the average citizen wakes up before we all find ourselves wondering what happened to our individual rights and our freedoms.
Brad,
It only makes sense that expats have a higher likely hood of distaste for the developments in their country of origin, otherwise they would have been less likely to leave. While I imagine Gringo expats in CR generally have a more liberal bent, there are plenty of conservatives as well. Case in point – one of the reasons I left was that I had been active in politics (on the left), and after Reagan was re-elected, I just felt I was living in the wrong country. I still feel that way, but to tell you the truth, Reagan looks much better to me now in hindsight. So does Nixon. Anyway, I stayed long enough to meet a bunch of expats who moved because they were disgusted with Clinton, and fed up with the US “welfare society”, the immoral media, and the disintegration of the family. I think the pendulum swings both ways.
You are certainly right that expats have greater access to alternative media – both local and CNN international, which provides coverage that is not perversely skewed by the need to sell advertising space in the gringo market. Furthermore your point about living abroad and seeing things differently is right on. After all, you’ll never know what color your house is if you don’t go outside.
Personally, I think it should be a requirement that all high school students spend one year in study abroad. The US is such a large and powerful country that egocentrism leads many to never even think about leaving, much less even caring much about what’s going on in the rest of the world. But that world is shrinking rapidly, and the US represents only a decreasing fraction of the world economy. If we wish to retain our economic leadership, we must come to understand more fully the world in which we live. The only way to do that is to experience it.
Here’s something to think about. GM, Ford and Chrysler have been moaning and groaning for a decades about loosing ground to foreign cars. How many American cars do you see outside the US?
As a veteran, you’ve fought to defend our ideals, and you’ve seen your comrades die for them as well. It’s too bad the politicians put you into these circumstances so flippantly. One of the definitions of war is, after all, a failure of diplomacy. However, the true fault is with the electorate who put them there. That huge mass of internationally ignorant gringos that want a cowboy gunslinger to impose our will on the rest of the world.
The average Tico on the street knows a great deal more about the world than most Gringos. This is because the country is so small, the impact from outside is much more significant. Alas, with greater knowledge and understanding does not come greater power. In fact, ironically they are powerless, while we ignorant Gringos are running things.
Like Scott, I also hope this thread doesn’t sink into a polarized mudslinging event. There’s enough about the U.S. to be distasteful to all people who are fortunate enough to see it from the outside, no matter what the political persuasion.
You might find Keith Olbermann’s latest critique of the Bush administration interesting which you can find at:
“But the premise of a president who comes across as a compulsive liar is nothing less than terrifying.”
“A president who since 9/11 has savaged the very freedoms he claims to be protecting from attack attack by terrorists, or by Democrats, or by both…”
“Habeus corpus neutered; the rights of self-defense now as malleable and impermanent as clay; a president stifling all critics by every means available and, when he runs out of those, by simply lying about what they said or felt.”
Scott Oliver
WeLoveCostaRica.comSaddest of all is that most of our former presidents were compulsive liars, not just our current president. Get your heads out of the sand folks, good moral fiber is not a prerequisit of being the president of the United States of America or a member of congress. It terrifies me that some people think bad behavior is partisan.
We have been planning to retire in Costa Rica for 2 years now and we are only 43 and 35. I once considered myself conservative, however, my distatse with what is happening in this country transcends political boundaries, if those really exist anymore. The two parties are equally ethically and fincially irresponsible now. We do not teach our kids much in school, family is not the core of our society (in CR you can sue your kids for support)and 50% of the population is now supporting the remaining 50%. Not to mention that 50% of the population is not educated enough to vote. Besides the political changes, increasing legislation from the bench, state and local governments overturning people intitiatives and the loss of freedoms (big brother is back), my concern is also financial:
Not far off is the day my property tax bill will equal my mortgage and my health insurance bill will exceed it. Why labor for 30 years only to pay twice what you originally owed?
“Saddest of all is that most of our former presidents were compulsive liars”
It is said that the best politician for ANY cabinet post is able to tell the biggest lies.
This is proven with both sides of the parties.
I love my country.
I hate the way the elected officials are running this country.
I hate the way the government is controlling the citizens.
I hate the way the USA is trying to control the rest of the world.
The TLC is for corporate America and not for Costa Rica.
When a US farmer says “I can out produce a Costa Rican farmer and ship into Costa Rica with a lower cost to the Costa Rican end user” This really turns my stomach.
So Sad
Bill MaesLet’s face it, you can’t get elected in the US without lying. The 5 second sound byte electorate isn’t interested in truth. Good salespeople know that illusion is much easier to sell than reality, witness the marketing for perfume.
In other words, the best possible politician is one who lies his arse off until he gains power, and then unexpectedly does the right thing. Unfortunately, these people are few and far between, and given the cost of running, our representatives are already bought and paid for. Too bad lawmakers are the ones who are responsible for campaign reform – it’s the foxes running the hen house, and we’re the hens.
Costa Rica is a to the world for publicly financed campaigns. That doesn’t stop them from taking bribes though, but at least they’re putting them in jail for that now.
The one thing I disagree with Bill on is TLC. It’s not perfect by any means, but many CR companies sell inferior products at high prices in a relatively closed market. In CR, it’s definitely who you know, not what you know. If you’re not part of the 50 families (or so), you’re out. This has a cost to society. TLC would make them compete in a freer market. Change is always painful, but what doesn’t kill you makes you stronger.
In my opinion the American farmer can only say that because he’s subsidized. So much for our free market.
I’m not advocating laissez-faire capitalism – that would be extreme. But closed economies are like doting parents. If you never kick the hatchling out of the nest, they’ll never learn to fly.
There is a striking truth in economics regarding trying to produce something internally when you can import it less expensively from abroad. The extra expense robs the consumer, and diverts capital from investments into products and services in which the country has a competitive edge, ones which could exported at a profit. Costa Rica disregards this fact in the fuel market, and the US disregards it in the agricultural market.
So my question is,
If this next election a liberal Democrat comes into the white house will all the expats go back the the states?
If so I am voteing Democrat this next time..hahahahaha (just kidding)
I think that if you are looking to leave the states just because of the president you must not have been loyal to our lady the statute of liberty in the first place. You must not really belive in what freedom is all about and the sacrafices that you have to give for it.
The world problems are not because of the U.S. it is just a result of issues such as radical Islam, North crazy Korea and many other issues that have been boiling up since the early 1990’s.
Lets ask this question, If the world got really crazy and Nicaragra’s problems spewed over to Costa Rica would you as a expat being asking for help from the U.S.A? I can grant you the United Nations won’t help!I think the states have bigger problems than if you are liberal or conservative and that is Health care and pensions that will kill the economy in the next 20 years. If you are moving for a better life style and for the right reasons than Costa Rica is for you. If you are moving because you are a fair weather Citizen then you probly won’t stay long in Costa Rica!
I am not trying to stur up emotions but trying to put us back on the ground and state that Costa Rica dosent need people to come there just because they are upset at their goverment. It is too small of a country and I belive it is a country that is a jewal and needs to take care of its own people and not have to worry about people making a mass exodus from other countries (they already have that with the neighbors north of them) just because they think they are lossing a political race.
Ohh by the way, If you all notice the topics that get the most post and livly conversations it the hot topics.. This is good beause it keeps a open mind!
Edited on Oct 09, 2006 19:59
GringoTico
I didn’t explain myself about the US farmer, know as large corporations that own these farms. These comments will and actions of the TLC will harm the Costa Rican people. This with the assistance and monetary subsidy of the entitlements from the USA.
The main point I wanted to make is that with the TLC:
1) It would drive all the small farmers out of business, and starve his livelihood and his family
2) Be a shield for US farming corporations to invade Costa Rica, purchase the land of all the little guys, and drive the Costa Rican larger farmers out of business
This has happened in the USA. The CONAGRA conglomerate for instance.
There is the US farmer that can’t make it anymore because of these large corporations. This has caused bank auction of those farms and all of the equipment. His children don’t want the problems.
I do believe the TLC will bolster the US farmer corporations and the imports to Costa Rica. All of this will be done with the blessings of the US elected officials. The US farmer corporations will still get his subsidies. The Costa Rican people will get the shaft.
This is only the tip of the iceberg TLC represents.
Read the TLC if you haven’t seen it:
http://www.ustr.gov/Trade_Agreements/Bilateral/CAFTA/CAFTA-DR_Final_Texts/Section_Index.htmlWhy do the powerhouses of the world want to change a simple lifestyle others enjoy.
I still have a fear for the TLC invasion.
I cry for the Ticos.
No one has convinced me otherwise.
Pura Vida Costa Rica
Bill MaesBill,
Thanks for posting the text of the TLC. I am by no means an expert on it, but I did brief it, and as expected it generally talks about eliminating tariffs, and insuring freer transport of goods across borders. In other words, eliminating friction in the market, which is good. There are protective measures for key items, such as coffee and bananas in the case of Costa Rica, which is good as well, since an abrupt leveling of the playing field would simply hurt too many people.
I can only imagine that you’re right about the bigger companies gobbling up the smaller ones, and in a more perfect market, the pendulum would eventually swing the other way with smaller companies finding niches, and out-maneuvering the bigger ones. But, alas, because of the corrupted political system, that process has been greatly hampered. That said, even in the US where few small traditional farmers still exist, there’s a growing market for organic, and farmer’s markets are popping up everywhere.
It is sad that small traditional farmers are put out of business, but isn’t it true that the rest of us are paying for their inefficiencies? And isn’t that wasted capital limiting our investments into something that creates wealth? Again, I’m no fan of the big agro-business boys and big pharma (like Maravilla), but eliminating economic friction has its benefits.
Change is inevitable. Those who resist it do so at their own peril. Stagnate, and you’ll find yourself way behind. Expose yourself to the front runners and you’ll hone your skills much faster.
Regarding big US companies taking over agro in CR, isn’t the terrain too rough for it? In the tropical lowlands you do have the right geography for bananas, palm, and pineapple (this is already big agro anyway), but I can’t imagine a Caterpillar Coffee Harvester on those mountain sides.
Yes, TLC will hurt. But no pain no gain. The funny thing is that people against the TLC in the US are just as fearful as those in Costa Rica. The US did experience some pain with NAFTA in some sectors, but benefited in others. The same is true for Mexico, and if CAFTA is put into effect, Costa Rica will decline in some areas (where they can’t compete), and rise in others (where they can). As a matter of fact, I believe that Costa Rica has the most to gain. Due to the high rate of education, the many professionals, and the political stability, I think it will become the administrative capital of Central America, attracting all sorts of foreign investment. Hasn’t Intel made a hugely positive impact in the CR economy? SC Johnson, Unisys and other companies already choose CR for their corporate base for Central America, and if CAFTA goes into effect, many more will follow.
Will this make CR lose some of its cultural beauty, of course. But the alternative is poverty, and falling behind in a world that is charging ahead.
Scott B,
Your right of course, running away does no good. Still, there are many who do. For me it was only one reason among many. Furthermore, I didn’t leave because of a single campaign loss (there were 14 losses out of 15), I left because I lost faith in the American people, which is far more devastating.
You say that the world’s problems are not because of the US. However, in many ways we, ourselves, helped create radical Islam and that loony toon in North Korea. In spite of our good intentions, we were forced to in the course of the Cold War. Korea and Vietnam were sidebars to that war, like pawns being sacrificed to keep the kings and queens from a direct confrontation, and we propped up the Shah of Iran, Pinochet, Saddam, Batista, etc. all with terrible consequences for the people of these countries. Now it’s coming back to haunt us.
Of course, Mao & Stalin shoulder a lot of blame as well, but the Soviet Union is gone, and Communist China has changed quite dramatically. They never apologized either.
Yes, there are others in this world much worse than us, but if we’re going to move on, we must recognized our own faults as well.
Also, US expats bring wealth to CR, and poor Nicas bring cheap labor.
BTW, I truly appreciate your open mind, as well as that of most other participants in this forum. As for me, it’s hard to see anything in black and white, all I see are varying shades of grey. It’s the politicians and extremists that like to polarize things, which only aggravates the discussion. I truly believe that when you take away all the dogma, there’s so much we can all agree on.
This morning I GOOGLE “Author Central American Free Trade Agreement” and found more that I had expected.
With this website http://www.stopcafta.org/ coverage of the CAFTA is extensive as well as strong opposition against CAFTA by citizens of the US and the citizens and businesses of those countries involved.
An article this week from Costa Rica stated opposition to the limited access to affordable generic drugs, that will be created or forced by the TLC.
From that site “The U.S. administration put increasing pressure on the Guatemalan government to rewrite laws before allowing the agreement to be implemented, including a visit by U.S. Ambassador James Derham to the Guatemalan Congress. ?Many of the demands being made, including further restrictions on access to affordable generic medicine, went above and beyond conditions laid out in the original agreement,? said Carrie Stengel of the Guatemala Human Rights Commission”.
This is a small portion of snowball effects this medical restrictive caveat will cause: This will lead to higher cost in medications for everyone. Force higher costs to the hospitals. Force insurance premiums to higher levels. Keep everyone from seeking medical assistance. With more time and thought to this one forced restriction from the USA, this list will grow&SNOWBALL. All to the foreign drug makers advantage.
Where do we go from here? How can we help our friends in Costa Rica. How can we foreigners help ourselves in Costa Rica&oops& We are doing that with CAFTA.
Tears for the Central American People
Bill MaesGringo Tico,
You are very right about the lost faith in American people! Personally that is one of the reasons why I fell in love with my wife and her culture. In the North land where I am from they don’t say the pledge of aligence in the class rooms. They don’t stand and hold their hands above their hearts like I was taught to in school. Many years of erroding the great heritage of freedom that our grand fathers have fought for are now being turned against us and used against us. I don’t think that president Linconln would agree to not being able to say the pledge or say a prayer in school.
Instead they are taught about social rights and about me, me me instead of the good of the country, or like one of our most famous presidents said ” ask not what your country can do for you but what you can do for your country” ( I know this is not the exact words but you know the meaning of it)
So back to the question of “Is it my imagination or is there a much bigger percentage of Americans living in in Costa Rica angry about what is happening in the US?”
I would have to say no, maybe its just his circle of people that he is hanging out with.
For myself and many other gringos it is because of familys. I know that I will some day be barried in Costa Rica because of the choice of immergating for my wife, our family and her family. Not because I am discontent about the United States or political issues.
Also radical Islam has been around since the beginging of Mohamid. If we look at what most gringos would define as radical Islam you would have to point out Mecca and say they are practicing it. You know things like cutting of heads on a weekly basis, preaching against Christianity and Judiasim,having religious police publicly humilitate you if you are not following the Koran, sending out fatawas to kill Americans and Jews, these are all widley practiced in a country called Saudi Arabia where the Koran is guidence of Sharia law. I know this because I have been there and have had friends that worked for the Saudi Goverment and lived in Saudi for years. I know that the U.S. didn’t create Mecca!
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