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I would love to know what our VIP Members think about the US authorities shutting down various sportsbooks and online gaming businesses in Costa Rica??? I do not gamble and never have but feel that people should be allowed to do so if they wish…
Some might say it’s a tragedy that a business that is totally legal in Costa Rica – that is employing thousands of young Costa Ricans at above market wages – is being decimated because the US government feels that their citizens should not gamble online.
Of course it’s OK for the various states to encourage their citizens to gamble… According to the North American Association of State & Provincial Lotteries at < http://www.naspl.org/index.cfm?fuseaction=content&PageID=3&PageCategory=3 > the total lottery sales in the USA for 2005 was just under $48 BILLION – That’s just the lottery!
What do you think?
Scott Oliver – Founder
WeLoveCostaRica.comI don’t know that the US closed down any of the sports books in Costa Rica. What I do know it is against the law to gamble on the internet in all but 1 state in the US and the federal government enforces violations of those laws.
Nevada has legal gambling when you are in Nevada you can place your bets via the internet to any internet site in Nevada that is online. As a Nevada resident I can place my sports bets at several Nevada casinos while I am in my home state. If I am traveling outside of Nevada I cannot legally place a bet at any of those same sites even though I have an open account with the casino.
I guess that is the same laws they have used in the US to address the online sports books in Costa Rica. If I am in Costa Rica I may gamble on line with the sports books located there. Unfortunately these Costa Rican sports books do not have enough business without US residents gambling and since they can not legally bet online from the US several sports book operations closed down due to lack of business.
Personally my views on gambling is it should be legal everywhere and especially on the internet but it isn’t so many US internet Poker sites in Nevada also closed down because they couldn’t get the needed business from just Nevada residents. Gambling and other vices when legal are victimless crimes when they are not legal many of these vice crimes are no longer victimless as in Prostitution you end up with pimps drugs and other evils that you will never find in a legal operation. Same with Gambling you end up with book makers breaking legs loan sharks doing the same and so fourth. Thus my feelings about keeping harmless vice crimes legal. There isn’t a place I know of that you can’t find these vices when they are not legal they support criminals when they are legal they give tax dollars to the communities. But hey that’s just my opinion.
Scott, The obvious reason, to me at least, to close offshore gambling is the fact that income tax would be very hard to collect on a foreign account. The lottery system and casinos are legal because they can be regulated and taxes therefore collected. Offshore gambling accounts would be hard to track except through any credit cards used and Internet monitoring. I think this is how they most likely realized people were doing this in the first place. Then again it may also be illegal to track credit card usage. I’m sure they’ll figure out a way to get it to work in the future. A cash cow for tax revenue will not get slaughtered.
Vegas is also correct about what happens when vices are not legalized. There is a moral component to this and we all have our own opinions.
If $48 billion gets generated from lottery alone, what about all the Indian casinos and Las Vegas revenue? We think governments do not want to create compulsive gamblers, or have people blow the rent and food money, but it seems odd they are in the gambling business to begin with.
The real sticking point to me is interfering with another country’s affairs. if something is legal in Costa Rica, or any where else, it should be left to the host country alone to decide what to do. If the revenue from all of the gambling sites in the host country cannot support themselves on gamblers other than USA bettors, then they will ultimately go out of business anyway. Either way, same thing accomplished.
Edited on Jan 25, 2007 16:38
Agreed! Taxes is probably the #1 reason.
Like every vice, there is a dark side to gambling and of course ‘addicts’ can and do lose everything which not only affects them but their entire families
Scott Oliver – Founder
WeLoveCostaRica.com“Interfering with another country’s affairs” is one of the things that America does best. That is why we have troops in over 100 countries.
If you think this s*** with the sportbooks has been bad, wait until you see what will happen in Costa Rica during Superbowl
When you talk about addiction remember an addict will find the vice whether legal or not. Thankfully only a few people that gamble are addicted still too many when you look at the effects on their families or on the individual addict. Outlawing something because of addicts is as foolish as outlawing alcohol because of alcoholics, it was tried in the US early in the 20th century all it did was force it underground and make the American Mafia, the Kennedy family fortune and other criminal empires. The samething is happening with illicet drugs the addicts demand has created the new criminal empires both in and outside the US. Illegal gambling whether via the internet or not is being controlled inside the US by the criminal eliment within the US and also outside the US by many of the same people. That’s not to say every or all Costa Rican Sport Book operations are owned or controlled by US criminals.
I am certain that the US government doesn’t like people making money from things they can’t collect tax on. Once they can’t/aren’t collecting their share of the of the revenue they go all out to shut it down. Just like the drug trade and their so called war on drugs. If these drug dealers were paying taxes see how quickly the war ends. The US military leaves Columbia and the FARC are their friends. Vices aren’t a civic issue it’s a money issue. That’s why Lotteries are legal in so many states they figured out how to make money from it. Same with book making in NYC they have off track betting, lotteries, daily numbers all gambling that was once illegal but now legal under government control. The government makes a fortune from the drug industry (Big Pharma) the reason that other drugs are illegal they aren’t made in US labs so they are untaxed. That is the reason internet purchases of medications are fought so strong they come in from Mexico and Canada at cheaper pricing and lost US tax revenue so it can’t be good in the US government’s eyes. They don’t say that they say the FDA is protecting us.
Taxes aren’t probably the # 1 reason They are definately the #1 reason !!!
Brad I have no idea what you are talking about the US military isn’t in any country to interfere they are there because the military is big business. The spooks may be there to interfere. Once the military is deployed or stationed it’s all about the dollars. US Defense Contractors supply these foreign bases with everything from beds toilets to the food they eat keeping americans working in the US and paying tax dollars. Never mind the weapons ammo vehicles planes these defense contractors provide support satalite management do I need to keep going or is the picture clear. Don’t confuse the intelligence community with the military. Intelligence cause the conflicts the military makes sure it expends enough money to make it worth while. The casualties are just a biproduct that we try to keep to acceptable levels. It’s not war or peace or morals or even US policy it’s business BIG BUSINESS. When the economy needs a boost we have a conflict. Once we are economically stable we negotiate a peace. Sometimes we just let others have the conflict and supply the materials not the personell (military) (for example See Israel). It’s all dependant on how much money we need to generate.
What happens on the superbowl? Tell me what you believe is going to happen rather than waiting and seeing. Then we can see if your predictions are correct.
I know what happens in the US during the superbowl Police raid as many of the illegal bookmaker joints and arrest the people working in there and confiscate all the money they find. Its another way of adding to the cities revenue stream.
shutting down the sports bookies is just another nail in the Costa Rican coffen.
If the CEOs of the companies would never have stopped in the U.S. they would not be in jail.
The U.S. has too much influence in how many countries do biz, this year gambling next year prostitution, the year after that something else. Slowly Costa Rica will look like Puerto Rico!
Yes, internet gambling is illegal in many of the states how ever it is not illegal in thousands of countries around the world. Costa Rica does not owe taxes to the U.S. Only gringos owe money to the IRS. Many of the CEOs of the gambling companies were not even U.S. expats.
There are many types of transactions that we do on the internet which generate money in the states of the u.S. how ever you don’t pay taxes on that.
Does Scott pay taxes with every book that he sells on this site to the U.S.? I don’t know but more importantly I hope he does not have too. I belive that the internet was not ment to be another way to recive income for the U.S. goverment.This was probably all started from some activists and pointed for more government interventions and since some lawyers had seen dollar signs they all pointed to Costa Rica.
Personally I don’t care about the gamblers, just like smokers they can make up their own mind what they want to do with their money. Tough luck if they choose to spend it with the bookies. Just like smokers if they want to smoke and kill themselfs thats their biz. If gamblers want to lose their homes that theirs!
That is a terrifying picture you are painting for us. The US is not interfering, it’s there because “the military is big business.”
And you found the answer to the $64,000 question!!!! Yessirreeebaby! Vegasknite hit the nail on the head …
“Police raid as many of the illegal bookmaker joints and arrest the people working in there and confiscate all the money they find.”
I hear there are already about 200 FBI agents in the country and Superbowl 2007 will not be a good time for Costa Rica sportsbooks.
Don’t worry all those Costa Rican college kids earning thousands of dollars per month will be delighted to know that MacDonalds will be happy to hire them for 10% of what they were earning before.
Never a dull moment eh?
Don’t suppose there’s anyway that you can tell us how you know this bradbard?
Scott Oliver – Founder
WeLoveCostaRica.comBrad: Don’t miss my entire message I never said the US is not interfering. I said the Military isn’t there to interfere The job of interfering is that of the US intelligence community. The military’s job in those cases is to keep the money machine turning.
Now back to the Superbowl; You state that the US Deparment of Justice Federal Bureau of Investigation is sitting in Costa Rica. Please explain for what purpose. The FBI has no juristiction in Costa Rica. The FBI is a Domestic law enforcement agency they can do all the investigating they need to do into illegal internet gaming from inside it’s own borders. They can research ownership of Costa Rican Sport Books from inside the US borders. They can issue US arrest warants for Costa Rican sport book owners and managers who break US laws inside US borders & which can only be executed within US borders. I’m not disagreeing with you because I have no facts to say you are wrong I just don’t understand your statements. Please explain in more detail what they will be doing there. I know we are seeing things similiarly and we both agree its all about money and the US government wanting their share or not allowing it. As I wrote in my previous post and you agreed I know what law enforcement does in the US during Superbowl. Those actions are all about the money not public safety which is what law enforcement is suppose to be about.
Edited on Jan 26, 2007 11:04
scottbenson: You’ve made some statements I don’t understand. First how does the US influence business in other countries. The US has its own laws which set standards for products and services sold in the US. This isn’t about taxation of foreign companies. Scott can sell his books free of tax in the US via the internet. If Scott’s book depicted child porn it would be illegal for sale in the US and if he sold and shipped a copy into the US a warrant for his arrest would be issued within US borders. This would be done because he broke US law.
With regard to Sport Books operating outside of US borders the US government and its law enforcement agencies have no interest in how they conduct business or taxing their profits. However, once one of these Sport Books accept wagers from inside of US borders they have broken US laws and are subject to arrest within the US. Their funds are also subject to being held if they are on deposit in a US or US affiliated bank as are any of their other US held assets.
That’s the only power the US government has over foreign companies. If a foreign held company ships sells or provides a service within the US in violation of US law they are subject to those same US laws. You can’t ship cocane into the US via the internet from a country that allows the sale of cocane or child porn or animal porn or unsafe products or pirated knock offs and so on. That is not the US going into Costa Rica to get involved in protitution or anything else that is legal in Costa Rica as long as it remains out of the US. Now interpol and other multination police agencies do join forces across the globe to enforce crimes against children and narcotics but not the things you mentioned. The CEOs you mentioned arrested in the US had indeed broken US laws and were arrested on US land they were given due process under US law. They were not arrested for none payment of taxes or even accused of not paying taxes.
Your argument that this was started by some activist holds no water and is just another conspiricy theory. Fact this was the result of US laws on the US books prohibitating accepting gamimg bets from within US states which prohibit them. Simple as that.
Vegasknite, You are misinformed this is all about taxation. The reason why the law was changed to make internet gambling illegal primarily was because of taxation and not being able to control the money going over seas. It was only this last couple of years that the law changed in the U.S. to facilitate the nabbing of Costa Rican CEOs. Since there is no boundaries to the internet web does that mean that all services and goods should be taxed that is done thru the net? Maybe people are going to have to put on their web sites disclosures that if anyone lives in certain countries they are excluded participating in those web sites? I don’t think that the creators of the web and the net had this in mind when they created it. (i know it was the military that was the first with the net)
What really is the problem is that many people in the U.S. wants to regulate the internet e biz. Dose Scott pay taxes to each of the individual states that a book goes to?? I don’t know maybe Scott can shed some light? ECommerce is affecting many people and is changing because of the U.S. Its easy money for the states to receive if people are buying stuff on line including making bets.
Yes, the U.S. does use price controls to control markets such as bananas, pineapple and other goods. My wife a Costa Rican Economist will be the first to prove to you that the U.S. states how much they will pay for a item because they are the largest market for them. This drives out the competition and leaves many countries in protest!
The U.S. has a long arm and will use it to their best interest so anyone in the E commerce needs to take heed.
P.S. hahahah Scott you must have been tired of seeing the smaller post to come up with this one…hahahah
Scottbenson: I am not misinformed at all in fact I am very familiar with the gaming industry taxation on gaming in the US and internet gaming. I worked in the gaming industry for over twenty years. The laws referencing internet gaming were not put in place over federal taxation. If that were the case the federal government would allow internet gaming in all 50 states that use Nevada gaming sites since these nevada companies pay federal taxes. Gaming is one of the most regulated industries in the US. Not including native american casinos there are at least 9 other states that have legalized casino gaming. Each of those states have their own gaming regulations and tax structures, The laws governing internet gaming are federal and state regulations none of which were put into place for tax reasons or to harm Costa Rica’s sport books. They were instituted to further regulate the industry and control interstate and intercontinental gaming. The regulations on the gaming industry is an atempt to keep organized crime and other unsavory people out of the operation of gaming companies. The United States regulations and laws to not allow interstate gaming via the internet mail or wire service are the laws that were broken by the Costa Rican Ceos that’s why they were arrested not for any US tax laws or regulations. This is fact not opinion nor words typed without merit. When you talk about the US controlling money leaving the US for oversea gaming then please explain why the US allows its citizens to go to Canada on a daily basis to gamble there. Why there are casinos being built in Maccau as we are typing owned and operated by US owned companies Cruise ships docked in Miami that go to the Bahammas daily strickly for gaming. Or are you stating that its just Costa Rica that the US doesn’t like. Every word I typed is documented fact and can be checked if you wish to take the time.
There are discussions in the US about tax loss due to internet sales but these losses are in line with taxes lost due to mail order shopping. As of today there are no taxes due on any sales made via mail order or the internet when the orders are made out of state or out of the country.
As far as you later comments on the long arm of the US and how they will use it for their best interests doesn’t make much sense to me either. Every country looks out for their best interests, however, the US does many good things for other countries in the world but I have never read you mention anything about that. How many loans to foreign country have been forgiven by the US how many US tax dollars have been given to countries in need? Is you statement accurate when you say the US government states how much they will pay for bananas and other imported fruits or maybe some US companies importing state prices they are willing to pay. If the US has so much control on imports why are we paying high energy prices can’t the US say oil will be bought at 20 dollars a barrel. We grow bananas and pineapples in the US and maybe the US goverment pays farmers not to grow them to assist other countries who are dependant on US imports of these products thus the price regulations. I am not 100% sure on these issues but I will do a little research. I use to have a better handle on them but I haven’t kept up on what we import and what we stop our own farmers from growing or selling. Once I get back up to speed in those areas I will get back to you. Although I know I can never change your views on how terrible the US is. I know you view the US as the big Satan even though the US has done so much in the way of good along with the bad that it has done. But at least we will talk in facts just like we did on the internet gaming issue which you incorrectly quoted or twisted when you weren’t fabricating facts.
scottbenson, I think you may have missed the point of my comments. The taxes I referred to in my post would be income taxes. As with every lottery winning you have to declare the winnings as income. This was not about taxing the goods and services portion, as those would be exempt from sales tax. A heck of a lot more money in income tax than use or sales tax.
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