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[quote=”sprite”]davidd,
Engaging people with the truth is not silliness. And I just can’t sit back and silently watch them roll around in bovine excrement with each other on these matters without speaking up.
And I could not say the conversation went nowhere. Who knows? Maybe somebody read here for the first time my claim as to what the Federal Income Tax is and what it is used for. Maybe that somebody will look it up and find out I was telling the truth.[/quote]
david is correct. You always come to the forum with complaints about the taxes but you offer no solutions.
There is, in fact, only one solution to this issue and that is grass roots petitioning of every state legslature to call for a Constitutional convention to amend the Constitution to take the bulk of federal financial decisions out of the hands of congress.
It would require setting the annual budget as a percent of GDP (20.5% of the previous years GDP), require payments on debt as a percent of GDP (2.5% of the previous years GDP), limit the percent of GDP that can be allocated to finance the government annually (17.5% of the previous years GDP)and require that congress work within those restrictions.
The only financial decisiios that would leave congress is what to do with the 17.5% that is allocated to finance government business.The process would require years of effort even if you could get voters to agree to do it.
The same procedure could be used to force a revision of the tax code eliminating all of the deductions, exemptions and adjustments to both corporate and individual taxes.
Waggoner41
can you imagine how many hours of life that you can never replace by pursuing this course of action. its a huuuuuge endeavor and would take years.
I for one would never allow any type of goverment to take my years of life that is so precious and we have so few of to engage in this bureaucratic time suck.
that’s why you have what I think started in the land of aussie
[b]the walkabout[/b][size=200][/size] 8)8)8)
and this is why your seeing more and more normal folks voting with thier feet rather than waste time.
in 2008 there were 200 people that renounced U.S. citizenship.. in 2011 over 1700 renounced citizenship.
now those numbers by themselves are not significant in raw numbers compared to the population
BUT.. in % i for one see a major trend going on. considering how difficult is it to actually renounce
I would speculate there are 100 times more that actually do what we do.
and I would also speculate
if you took a poll of the people that actually renounce
I would say these people are somewhat affluent. you can be sure as hell that they are not migrant mexicans 😀
my point
although I agree with sprite I do NOT agree with his method of exchange. to zealot
reminds me of the hard core politicians don’t do this and don’t do that only to be found doing exactly the action they deemed unworthy.
so sprite if your truly comfortable with your beliefs that’s great.. then share them in a way that can add to the conversation exchange.
or don’t share
😀
[quote=”davidd”]Waggoner41
can you imagine how many hours of life that you can never replace by pursuing this course of action. its a huuuuuge endeavor and would take years.
I for one would never allow any type of goverment to take my years of life that is so precious and we have so few of to engage in this bureaucratic time suck. [/quote]
There are only three alternatives.
1 ~ You can do something about it knowing full well that congress wont do it.
2 ~ You can kick back and complain about your plight.
3 ~ You can do as I do and join any of the forums on the internet and try to encourage others to participate in making changes.Living out of country this last is my only real option.
Interesting thread from people that don’t live in the USA and hold a PASSPORT from that country.
You “DO NOT” have to tell me what is wrong with my Country, Supreme Court, Congress, Senate.
I decided to stay and FIGHT the system and posponed my retirement by 6 months, HEY!!! wait a minute, I can retire in 6 months, why add 6 more months to this AGONY.
because of my GRANDCHILDREN. Lived a good life and I want this new generation to live the same be that MY SON or yours, is does not matter.
I certainly share your aspirations for your children’s and grandchildren’s futures despite having never had children of my own, but I’m skeptical that you’ll resolve much in the next six months. Maybe you could mark your calendar for the end of January and report back on what you’ve accomplished?
Nice one David, but the LIVING does the fighting the Dead have no purpose, calendar, alarm clock, JOB, income or need space or AIR.
“I certainly share your aspirations for your children’s and grandchildren’s futures despite having never had children of my own,”
YOU, yes “YOU” that never had a child is lecturing ME!! On my next of KIN.
Maybe you need a cause, SAVE THE WHALES would fit in your pocket.
An excerpt from today’s New York Times Magazine:
“Next year, Washington will enact the most ambitious tax-recovery plan in history, the Foreign Account Tax Compliance Act. Under Fatca, foreign financial firms will have to proactively identify every American account holder with assets of more than $50,000 and report details about their financial activity or face a significant penalty. The move is very unpopular among foreign banks, governments and Americans living abroad, but the more complex rules could actually mean more business for offshore centers. By the time Fatca is in full force, in 2017, truly wealthy individuals and corporations will almost certainly have used their resources to find more intricate loopholes.
One often-overlooked lesson of the financial crisis is that shenanigans don’t happen in the absence of regulation; they happen when regulations are exceedingly complex and involve confusing, overlapping regulatory authorities. Collateralized debt obligations and credit-default swaps were designed to squeeze through a labyrinth of laws, rules and taxes. And most of these toxic assets were formed in offshore jurisdictions, far from prying eyes and stricter reporting requirements. When Lehman Brothers collapsed, it took regulators and creditors more than a year to find out that the company comprised nearly 3,000 legal entities spread across 50 countries.
My colleagues at NPR’s “Planet Money” recently polled several economists of all political stripes and found that while they disagreed on the right level of taxation, they generally agreed that the overly complex taxation of rich people and corporations was disastrous. It all but guarantees that those people and companies will spend an inordinate amount of money figuring out how to game the system rather than come up with new ideas that improve the economy. Economists generally agree that the best tax system would be simple and strict, offering little incentive to lobby for loopholes. The big problem, of course, is that many of the people and corporations with the most influence over Congress don’t want it that way.”
A few relevant comments from Jeff Berwick with which I agree 100%
“The one thing that I would like to get across to people is that the world that we have lived in for the last 40 years has not been real. It’s been built completely on debt and because of that much of what we have seen and done hasn’t been “real.” It’s been a mirage.”
“All that is about to change. The entire western monetary, financial and political system will implode this decade. It all began when Richard Nixon removed the gold backing, “temporarily,” as he stated, from the dollar on August 15, 1971 and since then the entire world has been on a completely fiat, unbacked monetary system. That, combined with a massively growing socialist/fascist democratic nation-state system has meant massive amounts of debt – and great social instability laughingly known as progress.” Jeff Berwick.
aguirrewar
YOU GO BOY!!! 😀
good for you and I will make sure I raise my glass of this nice chilean wine and give you a toast as I sip this under a beautiful costa rican night.
god I hope they don’t send your future kids as fodder in some other war in the name of democracy
[b]what you should do in my opinion is get your head out of your arse and educate your grandchildren. [/b]
to deploy critical thinking
to learn to be Independent and NOT dependent on goverment.
to always give alot more than you take
to always and I mean always evaluate and time to time reevaluate your assumptions keeping the ones that bring you closer to your goals and vision and discard the ones that are no longer valid.
[quote=”aguirrewar”]Interesting thread from people that don’t live in the USA and hold a PASSPORT from that country.
You “DO NOT” have to tell me what is wrong with my Country, Supreme Court, Congress, Senate.
I decided to stay and FIGHT the system and posponed my retirement by 6 months, HEY!!! wait a minute, I can retire in 6 months, why add 6 more months to this AGONY.
because of my GRANDCHILDREN. Lived a good life and I want this new generation to live the same be that MY SON or yours, is does not matter.
you’re kidding yourself if you think staying in the US 6 more months is going to improve the future of your children or grandchildren. the US is the Titanic. It’s going down, down, down. the election won’t save it and neither will all your good intentions. i think it is sad, but how can you fight the behemoth?
[quote=”maravilla”]you’re kidding yourself if you think staying in the US 6 more months is going to improve the future of your children or grandchildren. the US is the Titanic. It’s going down, down, down. the election won’t save it and neither will all your good intentions. i think it is sad, but how can you fight the behemoth?[/quote]
Don’t give up so quickly, maravilla. Aguwarre(sp?) will have this all straightened out by the end of January. He has a secret plan.
oh, i hope he figures it out and implements a plan. and while he’s at it could he please improve the economy so someone will buy my lovely little house in a beautiful area of colorado so i never have to go back to the insane asylum without walls??? aren’t we, the boomer generation, not as well off as our depression-era parents? nothing bodes well for future generations unless they learn to live as our parents did — within their means and below their limits and not spend spend spend with money they don’t have for things they don’t need. i am so glad i got out when i did.
Ha! You don’t actually think it’s going to get better do you?
Mitt Romney is on the campaign trail in **[b]Israel[/b]** ferfakksake!
Nearly 40 YEARS AGO on the 7th October 1973 it was Senator William Fulbright who said on on CBS’s ‘Face the Nation’ that:
“The Israelis control the policy in the Congress and the Senate.”
Do any of you seriously think it’s going to get better with that gang of racist, nuclear armed psychopaths ruling the roost?
turkish wrote: “Do any of you seriously think it’s going to get better with that gang of racist, nuclear armed psychopaths ruling the roost? “
Well, after all, we DID survive the Bush years:wink:
[quote=”DavidCMurray”]It is [b]absolutely NOT true[/b], loraine, that 50% of Americans pay no federal tax. What 50% of Americans do not pay is [b]federal INCOME tax[/b]. They still pay all the payroll taxes that everyone else who earns up to about $103,000 per year pay. Those who earn over that $103k threshold pay no additional payroll taxes. So the burden of payroll taxes, which are the flat taxes you so admire, fall most heavily on the poorest and exempt the richest.
Too, bear ion mind that rich and poor alike all pay the flat sales and use taxes that states and municipalities impose and the flat-rate state income taxes.
Any flat tax will, by its very nature, impact most heavily upon the poorest. Think about this . . . Any person, rich or poor, can only benefit from about 2,500 calories per day regardless of the source, whether that’s rice and beans or beluga caviar.
If you tax someone making (say) $20,000 per year at a flat rate of 22% (what Steve Forbes flat tax would actually require), they’re left with $15,600 to spend on food and other necessities. If you tax a person making (say) $200,000 per year at that same rate, they have $156,000 left to meet their caloric and other needs.
Do you see how a flat tax benefits the rich at the disadvantage of the poor? Whose needs are better met under the flat tax scenario, the rich or the poor? Which would you rather be?
[/quote]
Well, David, I guess you haven’t read “The Fair Tax” – or maybe you didn’t understand it. It does address all your points. Maybe reading it with an open mind would help?
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