Paragon Properties in Costa Rica - Part VI - Discussion Forum from 2005
Multiple Authors
jimliesen122
Joined: 16 Apr 2005
Posts: 5
PostPosted: 03 Oct 2005 01:57 am Post subject: RE: Paragon Properties Hola all FROM Costa Rica!!!!! HA HA HA!!!!!!!! I am here and YOU are NOT!!!!!
As I read the last 2 pp in the forum which I haven't participated in the the last 2 weeks or so because I have been trying to get work done so I could come down here now, I have a couple of comments. BUT first, please let me explain what I did today.
First I got the rental car and headed to the NW central valley towns through Grecia and then to San Carlos (check your maps everyone www.maptek.com is pretty good). I saw lots of soccer, and cyclists, and rain, and countryside. Then I hightailed it back along highway 1. Funny thing, 5 hours to drive about 45 miles, and 1 hour back on the Autopista. I can say after driving so hard after this day I cannot tell you how much I'd pay for a good massuese tonight.
I got back into the city pretty quick and wanted to scout tomorrow's appointment schedule, as I have 2 attorneys, 1 accountant, and a realtor to meet and maybe (hopefully) hire.
As I went through Escazu (not far from Scott O's home, actually) I saw (one of) the famous McDonalds... I had to look... AT THE MENU BOARD!
I really wanted to know how much a Big Mac meal costs in CR. Ask nicely and I'll tell you in Colones or dollars. Point is, the "rich gringo's" weren't there!!!!!! Nope, full of locals!!!!!!
So, Expat, don't think that only the rich americans patronize the americanized franchises. Also, Wallmart is coming soon, BTW (says the Tico Times)...
Anyway, I guess all I can say is that for those who are interested in buying the CR dream getaway, please spend some hours driving around without your realtor.... I mean that seriously. Whether it is Paragon, Tarragon, Jose's real estate, or whatever, you just do not know how easy it is to drive a newbie around to only show what looks good and allow the gringos to believe that if the map says 10 miles, heck, what could possibly be in that small of a space which could possibly affect me.... THIS IS NOT LIKE AT HOME!!! Until you drive at your own leisure and discover the intracacies and beauty and ugliness which all abound here, you just don't know enough to know that you don't even know..... Know what I mean? (Of course you don't, because you haven't done this yet.
Anyhow, my glass is definitely still half full, but I believe the glass is not made in the color of rose. I only believe that because I am asking the hard questions and getting lots of answers from differing points of view and filtering it as best as I can. CR has problems just like anywhere else. In fact, many of them (I feel) stem from the wellfare society of non-ownership and feelgood hippie stuff from not having an army. Heck, Nicaragua is getting interesting along the border and all CR has is the idealistic belief that The Hague will save them from a water and border dispute issue with their army... When was the last time the international courts did anything quick enough? Or backed it up with enforcement? (before you answer that you ought to also research the resentment from Nicaragua towards their southern neighbor - it'smuch like the entitlement mentality Mexico has towards sw USA) But guess what? I saw a couple of things today which made the 4 inches of rain insignificant.
As I passed through each town, I knew I was in a new one because of the church and soccer. (That's importan if you are concerned with the concept of sprawl, BTW). Well that's not news - you all knew that. But guess what? I bet the kids in the USA wouldn't play any game outside like these kids play soccer.
Passion, dedication, culture, the whole thing. Mud, rain, no sissy shinguard under highrise socks. Just fun soccer. Not a single field was barren in 20 towns.
Oh, and guess what? I stopped and had some rice and beans with chicken for lunch and listened intently and you know what I did NOT hear????
Not a single word of any DIScouragement to the kids, the refs, or anyone.
These people play soccer with the same passion our kids watch TV all week, and they don't even swear at the kids or refs.... PURA VIDA everyone....
PS - As I type this it is 8 pm and still...the rain.... it is impressive this much water can be suspended in the air - I really don't understand that.
PPS - Jacques - I am so sorry I didn't send you that email I promised, but friend, getting here was higher on the list - I hope you understand.
PPPS - I am planning on being down around about 3 of the famous developments on Wed and Thur.... I'll report back how many airports I find and highways, and new homes, etc., but in all seriousness I can't take you-know-who very seriously anymore - you can't force a horse to drink or a newlywed to see baggage, but if anythng worth slowing down for pops into view I have my camera.
paumatom
Joined: 02 May 2005
Posts: 3
PostPosted: 03 Oct 2005 03:45 am Post subject: RE: Paragon Properties Jim - You wrote: CR has problems just like anywhere else. In fact, many of them (I feel) stem from the wellfare society of non-ownership and feelgood hippie stuff from not having an army. Heck, Nicaragua is getting interesting along the border and all CR has is the idealistic belief that The Hague will save them from a water and border dispute issue
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But guess what? I bet the kids in the USA wouldn't play any game outside like these kids play soccer.
Passion, dedication, culture, the whole thing. Mud, rain, no sissy shinguard under highrise socks. Just fun soccer. Not a single field was barren in 20 towns.
Oh, and guess what? I stopped and had some rice and beans with chicken for lunch and listened intently and you know what I did NOT hear????
Not a single word of any DIScouragement to the kids, the refs, or anyone.
These people play soccer with the same passion our kids watch TV all week, and they don't even swear at the kids or refs.... PURA VIDA Just a thought, but maybe the two are connected. Also, I'm wondering where they found hippies in 1947 Costa Rica. Remember you're not in Kansas anymore, that's supposed to be part of the attraction.
cranberry
Joined: 20 Sep 2005
Posts: 21
PostPosted: 03 Oct 2005 12:07 pm Post subject: RE: Paragon Properties jim,
interesting to hear your posts coming from the "motherland"! check out columbus heights in playa hermosa if youd
cranberry
Joined: 20 Sep 2005
Posts: 21
PostPosted: 03 Oct 2005 12:29 pm Post subject: RE: Paragon Properties jim,
going to try this again! yes if you get a chance check out columbus heights in playa hermosa. I don't have the # but the web is wamcr.com let us know what you think. playa hermosa is approx. a 1.5-2 hr. drive from san jose. while there casa pura vida is a comfortable place to stay on the beach. the owners are a good source for infornation as they have been in the area about 12yrs. this will put you about 30 minutes north of paritta. good luck!
bhdixon
Joined: 09 Aug 2005
Posts: 39
PostPosted: 03 Oct 2005 05:03 pm Post subject: RE: Paragon Properties Hey Jim,
Pura Vida! I'll be down in a couple of weeks. Enjoy! Can't wait to get your impressions online. xPat,
I don't know who all these rich people are that are buying in CR. They have the money to buy in less risky areas within the US. Seems like us wanna be rich guys (speaking for myself) are the ones snapping up property in CR on a small scale anyway. Cranberry,
Best comments I've seen in awhile (except for perhaps Jim's). You are a knowledgeable person in my book and a realist.
Soon2BNXpat
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 24
PostPosted: 03 Oct 2005 06:20 pm Post subject: RE: Paragon Properties dixon said: "I don't know who all these rich people are that are buying in CR. They have the money to buy in less risky areas within the US. Seems like us wanna be rich guys (speaking for myself) are the ones snapping up property in CR on a small scale anyway." I don't know who they are either, but I'm trying to get the hell away from them as they destroyed every paradise I ever moved to! These are not primary residences they build; they are second or third or fourth homes. As for the rich not eating in McDonald's, well, that doesn't surprise me. The target demographic for this pernicious food chain has always been the lower end of the economic scale. it doesn't bode well for Ticos if they' are scarfing up this stuff passed off as food. Our worldwide health crisis is in part blamed on the fast food industry. As for how much any of what they serve costs, I last checked their prices when hamburgers were $.10. Wouldn't eat them then, wouldn't eat them now! LOL As for Nicaragua, despite the political instability (with the Seals positioned in case of an uprising which the US will squash) people are still buying land there and touting it as the next best place to live. That where I nearly went to buy land before I got talked out of it by a friend who spent 20 years there during the contra scandal and said ixnay on Nicaragua, go to Costa Rica. The rest is history. 29 days and counting til I'm back in CR.
krunchie
Joined: 03 Oct 2005
Posts: 3
PostPosted: 04 Oct 2005 04:59 am Post subject: RE: Paragon Properties I'm a new character to the "Paragon Saga" here. Just spent the last 4 hours reading all the entries. Since this topic was started. It's been very informative and helpful for me. Especially following Dixon. I just recieved my info packet and friendly call from Peter in Fl. to see what I think. As of TODAY the airport is still being used as a selling tool. I was told because of the increased air traffic and influx of tourism, blah blah, blah. Made sense to me until reading past enteries here. That as well as the superhighway. Which really made no sense to me because the land is in Miramar right off an already existing superhighway. (from what i can tell with the map) Dixon, I don't know what they told you. But there still is land in Playa Del Sol. At least today at 4pm I was told to "pick a lot...any lot. Secure it now and if ya don't like it we'll find ya something else". I never knew real estate could be so easy in CR. But someone could have bowed out of their contract since you purchased and lots could still be for sale. This deal seems completely crazy, the marketing (or scam) and concepts are totaly out of the box. BUT, like Dixon stated awhile back. No one has ever come forward and said they could not get their money back. One guy said he had a friend that had a hard time. But I still haven't seen anyone responed to this. No one has stated the contracts aren't credible. They look awefull shadey, along with xerox copied refund slip. But again, if that's what the deal is and it's writing. The risk factor seems kind of low. Although it is also seems strange that out of all the projects. No one has said the utilities are in and I'm just waiting to close. You would think something would be in place after almost 2 years. Someone has to be first. I'm glad I found you all. I'm not ruleing out this deal, but I've never been to CR and will be going in Nov. to check things out. Until then my checkbook stays closed. Look forward to learning about Jim and Dixon's travels
krunchie
Joined: 03 Oct 2005
Posts: 3
PostPosted: 04 Oct 2005 05:40 am Post subject: RE: Paragon Properties Another thought......from all the enteries I've read it seems that Paragon IS buying land, but worrying about sectioning them off into lots later. Or it at least until the title was awarded. Can't remember excatly how it was worded. Understand I've been getting mentaly punished by hurricane paragon for the last 5 hours here. Point being, how can the people who have already seen their lots. Know it's THEIR lot. How do you what you are looking at? If this is a scam, (and the track record speaks for itself) who's to say they couldn't put a bunch of stakes out somewhere in the middle of old man johnsons farm. They know when you're going to be there...you made an appointment remember. what kind of insurance do we have besides a xerox copied refund slip.
trevorchil
Joined: 09 May 2005
Posts: 3
PostPosted: 04 Oct 2005 05:47 am Post subject: A question of value In one of my first posts ever made on this now famous project(s) I questioned the great value that the buyers were quoting with absolute total and unquestioned belief that $60,000 was a bargain. I made the comment then that that was hardly the gospel and here again I give you a hard comparison from the same area to back up that original statement. I just came back from a trip to Parrita in assisting a client with construction of a new home on property at Playa Palo Saco which for those that do not know runs from Parrita to 7 km south/SE. To get to this beach you travel on a paved road from Parrita until you hit this long stretch of approximately 300 ocean front lots. This beach has a completed Plano Regulador which means you can build immediately which is evidenced by construction in progress at this very moment. The whole beach is fully serviced even with phone lines to the last home currently built. It is completely flat which means that the property is 100% developable which a mountain most certainly is not. It has a lot of palm trees both on the beach and the lots as well as fruit trees growing with no concerns over primary forest issues. A large amount of these lots have ocean in front and a very large estuary in the back that has excellent snook and red snapper fishing as well as providing a place for a boat and dock for recreational purposes. These concessions run from $42,000 to $200,000 depending on size. As far as historical evidence provided from just about anywhere in the world what property has escalated in price more ocean front or ocean view? I think we all know ocean front wins hands down in this competition. Now we must add in the fact that the property in question is 15 to 20 kms back from the beach this whole scenario becomes even more questionable as from that far away the ocean becomes this thin blue line on the horizon as compared to a surf crashing in at your feet on a near desolate beach. These are hardly comparable locations. Not to mention that the road to get way back to those lots is most certainly not paved so the drive will hardly compare to the Palo Saco drive to town being under 10 minutes from the furthest lot. So let us make a comparison on features and realities of these two locations and look at both value and risk. 1. Security of ownership/control -
Palo Saco - you pay the owner and walk away from the lawyer's office instantly with the right to build the home of your desires at any time or to sell to who ever you choose when ever you choose.
Paragon - you pay them and walk away with a company that may hold the title once it appears sometime in the future guaranteed by a contract of the developer and NOTHING from government or regualtory body that says such WILL happen. You provide them with the money to finance their development but you receive nothing for the use of your money other than a promise to do something for you sometime in the future. 2. Ease of building -
Palo Saco - Flat sand beach 100% buildable immediately
Paragon - mountain location which may only be 10% buildable hence all that property may be of little use to you (unless you raise goats) sometime in the future once Paragon completes all its legal requirements and most assuradly the mountain locations will be more expensive to build on Eg. retaining walls and water runoff controls can easily run $10,000 before you even get started on a house. 3. Infrastructure -
Palo Saco - paved road leading to 7km sand beach road, power and phone line complete (cell pones work), water available from sand point wells. Cable company is currently running lines to the beach north of this so it is reasonable that this beach could also see cable in the forseeable future due to its close proximity to town.
Paragon - 15-20 km of road of varying degree of roughness that could easily mean a 30 minute drive to town, all infrastructure in development and water from where we do not know yet. 4. Social recreational activities -
Palo Saco - an existing community with three bars/restaurants on the beach, existing neighbours (with more in constrcution phase now) for social activities and interactions, a school, fishing, boating, surfing, swimming and what ever else you can think of involving water.
Paragon - you are way back in the boonies of the mountains with ZERO community and ZERO recreational activities other than watching the birds and butterflies. There is no one to socialize with and it will be some time before this changes especially if most speculators never build or wait for years as they pay off their lots before they do. So if you are one of the first to build, once there is some infrastructure to build upon, it is going to be one lonely place for a very long time. In a final simple comparison of price for value and future escallation potentials the lot I was on cost $100,000 more than one up in the mountains 15 kms away so is it worth $6,000 a km for the location. The client that purchased this certainly thought it was better value. I have no doubt that when they look back on this road to a sound investment their road will have much more gold on it that the one leading way back to those mountains. Even under the best case scenario that Paragon does all that it promises I still don't see this location as having the great value that all the proponents boast of regularly on this board. That I submit you can take to the bank! Other than that all I can say is good luck to those that bought into the slick marketing.
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